Netherlight Crucible and buffs for Beast Mastery

With this week’s maintenance, Beast Mastery is getting a “6%” buff. Cool, right? Well, don’t get too excited. For one, it’s not a true 6% buff since it leaves out some important things like Beast Cleave or any pet auto attacks — it just buffs primary abilities and most of the talents. Secondly, all this buff does is let us keep the status quo. Everyone is getting 15 ilevels on their weapon this week from the Netherlight Crucible, and Beast Mastery scales like crap with weapon damage while other classes and specs get tons of value from the weapon increase.

So this buff really just puts us back where we were, with maybe a tiny 1-2% extra. On top of that, we’re going to fall even more behind in AoE/cleave since that isn’t getting any benefit at all from the Crucible or this buff (except for Stomp, which is included in the buff). We need more than 1-2% relative to other classes!

Anyway, let’s get to the Netherlight Crucible. I updated my Wowhead guide with basic information on how to use the Crucible and determine upgrades and what traits to take. I’ll reproduce some of that here.

First up is the trait values. This lets you quickly and easily compare relics in the Crucible by simply adding up all of the ilevel values in a given path.

I just want to start with the standard disclaimer: This stuff can all change slightly based on your gear, legendaries, chosen talents, etc. These numbers are going to be reasonably accurate for most BM hunters, but if you have the knowledge to sim your own stuff, I’d always recommend that over using these numbers.

Single Target Trait Values

Weapon Traits Approx. ilevel value
 Jaws of Thunder +8
 Pack Leader +6
 Unleash the Beast +6
 Slithering Serpents +6
 Spitting Cobras +3
 Wilderness Expert +2
 Furious Swipes +0
 Natural Reflexes +0
 Mimiron’s Shell +0
 Focus of the Titans +0
Crucible Traits Approx. ilevel value
 Secure in the Light +10
 Infusion of Light +10
 Torment the Weak +10
 Shadowbind +10
 Chaotic Darkness +9
 Shocklight +8
 Master of Shadows +7
 Light Speed +7
 Murderous Intent +7
 Dark Sorrows +3
 Refractive Shell +0
 Light’s Embrace +0

AoE Damage Traits

 Furious Swipes and  Dark Sorrows are trickier to put a number on since most of their value comes in pure AoE situations. If you spend a good deal of your time in Mythic+ it can be worthwhile to have these traits, but generally you want to focus on the other traits since they have value in all situations.

For Mythic+ use, I would put a overall value of +12 on  Furious Swipes and +6 on  Dark Sorrows. You may want to factor this into your relic/trait comparisons. For example, it might be worth using a slightly less valuable single target relic if you get the added bonus of Furious Swipes.

Examples

Here is an example of how you might apply these numbers in a Crucible trait tree:

Hopefully it makes a little sense presented like that. Using ilevel values isn’t a very precise unit of measurement, but it is quick and easy. Whether you use my values or sim out your own, it should make comparing relics pretty easy.

To take it a step further, let’s compare 3 hypothetical Arcane relics:

Relic Crucible Tier 1 Crucible Tier 2 Crucible Tier 3 Total Value
 Charred Hymnal of the Moon
(+58 and +8 from  Jaws of Thunder)
+5  Shadowbind (+10)  Unleash the Beast (+6) +87 ilevels
 Torn Fabric of Reality
(+64 and +6 from  Slithering Serpents)
+5  Shocklight (+8)  Wilderness Expert (+2) +85 ilevels
 Self-Forging Credentials
(+68 and +0 from  Natural Reflexes)
+5  Dark Sorrows (+3)  Spitting Cobras (+3) +79 ilevels

So, as usual for BM, traits make a big difference. Don’t throw away any of your relics without trying them out in the Crucible first. You also might want to consider spending all that Veiled Argunite on relics to try to roll the dream combos. Let’s be honest, you’re probably never going to get that Arcanocrystal anyway.

Simming the Crucible traits

If you’re familiar with Simulation Craft/Raidbots, here is how you can sim the new light and shadow traits

This requires that your main sim is called “baseline” — it’s the text at the top of your input that should say hunter=”baseline” and then just copy/paste all of this below the rest of your sim input — alternatively, you can just copy and paste the various crucible lines to see those individually. You can change the “1” to a “2” or “3” to simulate having 2 or 3 relics with that same trait.

copy=Shadow_TormentOfTheWeak,baseline
crucible=1780:1
copy=Shadow_Shadowbind,baseline
crucible=1778:1
copy=Shadow_ChaoticDarkness,baseline
crucible=1779:1
copy=Shadow_DarkSorrows,baseline
crucible=1781:1
copy=Shadow_MasterOfShadows,baseline
crucible=1771:1
copy=Shadow_MurderousIntent,baseline
crucible=1774:1
copy=Light_Shocklight,baseline
crucible=1777:1
copy=Light_LightSpeed,baseline
crucible=1770:1
copy=Light_SecureInTheLight,baseline
crucible=1782:1
copy=Light_InfusionOfLight,baseline
crucible=1783:1

If you have any questions about the Crucible, feel free to comment. And good luck on your relic rolls.

P.S. If you’re seeing a notification for this post twice, sorry about that. Blizzard released Crucible trait changes literally minutes after I first published this, so I had to take it down and re-run all the numbers.  🙄 

  

41 thoughts on “Netherlight Crucible and buffs for Beast Mastery”

  1. Hey Bendak,
    first thank’s a lot for this post and the trait values, I will sim it on my own later, but this “first look” is a very nice info!
    I have another question for the topic of light and shadow powers from “tier2”. Will it be possible to change them? For example: my weapon is at 63 points, so I won’t get all of the “tier3” trait tommorow. Can I use the better ones from tier2 even if the alined tier3 isn’t the best one, so I can change the tier2 when I reach the needed value of points in my weapon? Or am I forced to take the worse tier2 because of wanting the better tier3 in a week?

  2. I honestly think we are in a good place right now, so “keeping the status quo” is not a bad thing. For the past several weeks I’ve been able to consistently place among the top damage dealers while raiding (LFR, normal and heroic), and I haven’t been doing bad at all in M+ as well.

    Also, I should point out that I’ve been trying both Mastery and crit builds, and to be honest Mastery is not that hot, right now as a crit focused gear seems to enable a larger damage output, mostly because of the Dire Beast related procs enabling Bestial Wrath to be up most of the time.

    1. Mythic ToS is the main place we’re suffering: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13

      Yes, we’re still viable and can do well (at least on some fights), but IMO the gap — especially on cleave/AoE — is too large. We still need some help there. If Blizzard wanted to make us a single target focused spec, that’s fine I guess, but if you’re going to be weak in one area you’d expect to be strong in the other. But the fact is we’re weak in one area and slightly below average in the other.

    1. That used to be the case up until yesterday when they tuned the traits. Stat ones got reduced, and the damage procs got scaling bonuses. For example, the proc rate now increases with haste and they are affected by Bestial Wrath. They were static before.

      1. Wonder how much stat weights are going to change because of that.

        Mastery gets devauled fairly badly it seems, which also probably makes Stomp >>> Frenzy. Especially so if those damage procs are indeed affected by BW, as Stomps BW uptime is quite a bit higher than Frenzy’s.

  3. “Let’s be honest, you’re probably never going to get that Arcanocrystal anyway.”

    I have opened 15 trinket tokens so far… If I get another pvp trinket I’m gonna punch something…

    1. I’ve lost track of how many I’ve opened — somewhere in the vicinity of 25 though. I did get a pair of socketed 915 stat sticks (crit and haste) but they’re very slightly worse than my 930 ToS trinkets. Though I guess there is something to be said about the reliability of stat sticks over random procs. Once I see what my initial crucible rolls are I’ll see if I should be spending the Veiled Argunite on relics instead.

      1. Keep trying!

        I finally replaced both of my old ones (an 860 Arcano and 880 BTI) – I got a 925 AGL/Vers stat stick (drat the vers, but it’s still better than the old ones), and an absolutely dream 925 Chrono Shard.

        (One other thing that I mentioned in the other thread – the ToS trinkets are pretty much all ST-only. They (esp something like the Owl) lose a ton of value as soon as you get a second target, nevermind Mistress/Harj.)

      2. Awesome guide as usual. Pretty sure I messed up my crucible choices. lol, I checked icy-veins before I got the notification in my e-mail about your post.

  4. Waitaminute.

    The area we needed the most help on was cleave.

    The buff doesn’t include cleave?

    The heck is going on? And they’d better not say it’s because we “can’t have it all.” “Cleave” specs like UH DK and Fire mage are also really good ST specs right now.

    At my gear range, MM is getting about 55K in weapons buffs, compared to about 25k for BM. Given that MM was ahead already, a 6% *total* BM buff would have been just about equitable, but a 6% *partial* buff isn’t. Especially when that buff doesn’t touch the weakest part of the spec.

    I r frustrate. I’m not sure how to address this productively, or if I even have the power to do so.

    1. The 6% buff applies to the following:

      “Affected Spells: Multi-Shot (2643), Kill Command (34026), Chimaera Shot (53209), Barrage (120360), Barrage (120361), A Murder of Crows (131900), Chimaera Shot (171454), Chimaera Shot (171457), Cobra Shot (193455), Volley (194392), Stomp (199530), Stampede (201594)”

      No increase to pet auto attacks/basic attacks, or Hati’s attacks. So no buff to beast cleave.

    1. Dire Frenzy is fine. Problem is if you have some decently high level T19 pieces, you’re usually better off sticking with Stomp using 2p T19 and 4p T20. Without T19, Dire Frenzy and Stomp are pretty damn close.

  5. Sorry for double post, posted in the wrong place. Awesome guide as usual. Pretty sure I messed up my crucible choices. lol, I checked icy-veins before I got the notification in my e-mail about your post. My mistake for listening to a marks hunter in the first place.

  6. Quick feedback: simming both in AotB with Qa’pla and KC with Roar/Pry lines up nearly exactly with Bendak’s chart, and my gear isn’t as good as his, so the table seems pretty applicable across gear ranges and talent choices. One key caveat: AoE situations increase the relative effectiveness of the tier 2 stat traits and decreases the relative ranking of the straight damage choices. Overall, I was somewhat surprised at how little the difference there was in trait value between AoTB and KC setups, but the chart seems pretty spot on for both.

    One other interesting thing I noticed was a slight decrease in the power of furious swipes relics relative to unleash the beast and focus of the titans for AoE situations. Don’t know if that’s the lack of buff to beast cleave, the increase in weapon ilvl starting to make multishot a little more effective, or what. It was a small change, but noticeable given furious swipes’ former dominance. Right now unleash the beast seems like a great “jack of all trades” trait with good value in most fight situations in ToS, so I’m tending to favor it when available.

  7. Thanks for always posting such great guides, Bendak! I have a question, do you know which nether crucible traits are good for AOTB build? I know the traits for that one are little weird compared to normal Stomp or DF builds. Thanks! 🙂

    1. Almost the same, except the two Kill Command traits would go down about 2 ilevels, and Cobra Shot traits may go up 1-2 each. But if using legendary boots+AOTB it doesn’t change much since you still get a lot of Kill Commands.

      1. Oh awesome! Thanks so much. Yeah I use boots + belt except on DI, which I use boots + sephuz. Ever since I switched over to AOTB my damage has gone up exponentially! Still cannot believe that talent that I overlooked so hard is this good lol.

    1. Whenever I get replacement pieces that perform better due to sheer stats. So far any combination without T19 I’ve tried has been lower DPS. I’m kinda worried about Antorus as well, because as it stands now the T21 bonuses are tremendously awful. I sometimes wonder if T19 could survive even though the next tier — I’m using gloves and cloak, which aren’t huge stat pieces, so it’s a possibility.

      For example, my t19 cloak is 905 + socket — a 930 cloak with a socket is only a 9k dps upgrade in pure stats. My t19 gloves are 910 and a pair of 935 gloves I have is an 18k dps upgrade. The T19 bonus is worth a lot more than that.

      1. Thank you for adding that info. I kept the t19 bonus as well (But I only have 890), but the 2p seemed to be such a useful need for my Stomp build. Even when i simmed gear that said it would be an upgrade (random 930 pieces), sheen I actually tested it out in gameplay, my DPS showed a drop from lack of t19 2p even if they were 890.

        Also ty for the NC post. You made it make a lot more sense them all the other posts I’ve read about it lol

      2. Thanks for the reply Bendak. This helps me out a lot. I am currently running my two highest pieces of T19 (905 shoulders and 910 legs). I was thinking maybe replacing with 930 + random pieces, but it looks like that would be a bad idea. I really hope Blizz review our T21 because hanging onto T19 in Antorus just seems so bad on their part with design.

  8. Was havinga look at icyveins there i still like to refer to it back and forth as i think most of us would agree azorthorian is a hunter that is pretty good, anyways was surprised that convergence of fates according to his trinket sheet is basically the best trinket n the game atm, thought it would have been defunct by now, also some of his cruicible trits he values slightly different even segregating them into stomp buil dire frenzy build aspect of the beast etc, as for this crucible are we at a point were equipping a lower level relic with better traits is going to be better or is relic ilevel still best if its higher?

    1. As far as I understand it, traits are way more important than ilvl for our relics as BM Hunters. I personally dropped a 925 for a 910 and a 915 for a 900 purely because the traits through the relics to tier 3 are so good (referenced Bendaks chart for relic bonuses before I did anything).

    2. These are just an average set of numbers, as I said in the disclaimer simming your own (with something like raidbots) is always preferable. I suppose I could break them down into various builds but they don’t change too much except for AotB where Kill Command traits drop a little bit.

      The other thing is “ilevel” is not a precise measurement. For example, all the traits I have listed at +10 at not identical DPS, they’re all just very close to a +10 ilevel value (single target). There could be a 2-3k dps spread between them, but that’s small enough that it’s not worth listing one as +11 and one as +9, for example. When you’re talking 1 million+ total DPS this is not very much.

      As for Convergence, all you can do is sim it. My 915 crit stick sims ~15k higher than my 905 Convergence. I’m sure that would change if I was using the legendary bracers.

      1. > The other thing is “ilevel” is not a precise measurement.

        Right, but it’s a hell of a lot easier to understand and use than some other theory sites that just post a massive list of simmed numbers. So thanks for that. 🙂

        As long as it’s somewhere near accurate general case (and it seems to be), that pair of tables is awesome and most appreciated!

  9. So after one week of stats, BM’s relative status appears to have not changed. Still substantially below average in the mid rankings, and bottom 3 (along with two barely-played specs, survival and outlaw) at higher rankings. Still passable at tunneling fights like Gorath, and horrible at anything else.

    It seems odd that a spec that can throw down over 130,000 heroic raid parses in a week can continue to have such a low ceiling for throughput… and that there’s really not that many people upset about it, as near as I can tell. I wonder if any changes are planned for 7.3.5, or if the Antorus fight formats will cater to BM enough that we’ll be able to limp along. Hard to say, though the t21 bonuses certainly aren’t giving me a lot of cause for optimism.

    I don’t know. I’m relatively ok with my personal position within my raid so I can understand the lack of outcry, but I can *feel* the spec’s ceiling limitations on some fights. It’s not a pleasant feeling. 🙁

    Also, I’m really getting tired of having to head back to the crucible to do math every time I get a relic. That took all of about 3 days to get old. =/ Though on the other hand the crucible’s a brilliant idea to keep you doing content- got to unlock those slots! BM’s crucible power would seem relatively backloaded, since we’re so into the traits as opposed to the up front ilvl boost. Time will tell if that pans out.

    1. Yep. I’m also hoping Antorus gives us more options to shine because it seems like Tomb of Sargeras is the anti-BM raid. We’re now decent at single target (but still only average in the best case), and absolutely terrible at pretty much everything else in that raid. No spread cleave to speak of, and poor 2-3 target numbers. I’m all for strengths and weaknesses — I don’t really care if I’m strong at single target or multi-target, I’d just like to be strong in one of them.

      We’re in a better place in dungeons, but I really want ToS to just be over with at this point.

  10. Speaking as a guy who has received not one, not two, but FOUR elementium bomb squirrel generators (including one at 945 that was STILL a major dps downgrade)…

    ….congrats. Pardon me, but I’ll be over in the corner, with my metal squirrel family.

    1. Icon of Rot is my squirrel generator. I’ve gotten no less than 13 of them when you combine bonus rolls, caches, nethershards, and argunite. Wish I was kidding.

      1. Holy Schnikeys. You sir have my honest and sincere sympathy. (Also, hitting “reply” vs “comment on this post” is apparently hard, sorry for the odd orphan above.)

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